Politics in Yerevan.

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Politics in Yerevan.

Postby Armenian on Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:34 pm

Some of my comments about Kocharyan's administration and the current political situation in Yerevan:

How is the fatherland doing?

In reality, our Republic today is much better than it was fifteen years ago, it is much better than it was ten years ago, it is much better than it was five years ago, it is much better than it was a year ago. However, we obviously still have a very long way to go before we meet "western" standards.

Many people say that the assassinations of 1999 was a severe setback for the Armenian Republic and that had Vazgen Sarkisian and Garen Demirjian been alive today the sociopolitical situation would have been much better.

In my opinion, we have not lost anything today by not having Vazgen Sarkisian and Garen Demirjian in power. As a matter of fact, our political situation could have been worst had they been around. The reality of the matter is Vazgen Sarkisian was a bad politician and the stories about him stopping corruption was a fairytale, he was actually amongst the most corrupt individuals in the nation. According to Artsakh war veterans Vazgen Sarkisian also made many mistakes during the war that caused the deaths of many Armenians. I believe Vazgen Sarkisian meant well and he did some good, however, he was a not qualified to represent our nation. He essentially appealed to the low uneducated class within the Armenian Republic. And if the rumors that he was getting close to the US State Department and, as a result, Russia wanted to get rid of him was true, then it's good that he is out of the picture today.

Garen Demirjian was another one of the Soviet era's worthless technocrats. It was during Garen Demirjian's watch that the Azeri population within Armenia grew and prospered as Armenian regions such as Zangezur suffered from neglect. It was during Garen Demirjian's watch that the uneducated "Rabiz" sub-culture within Armenia became very prominent. And it was Garen Demirjian that tried very hard to stop Armenians from rising up and fighting for Artsakh during the early stages of the conflict.

The above two individuals won't be missed much within Armenian politics. Nevertheless, I need not say a single word about how dangerous Levon Ter Petrosian's administration was. The man in question was a criminal agent working for foreign powers and should have been tried for treason.

When observed within a proper 'balanced' perspective, the Armenian Republic today is on the right path. Armenia has successfully secured its borders by having a strong armed forces and close geostrategic relations with the Russian Federation and the Islamic Republic of Iran. Armenia has also been getting closer to the EU and China. During the past several years, the Armenian economy has been gradually growing within many vital sectors. And there is a new generation in Armenia now that is realizing that they need to get an education and "work" to make a living instead of expecting hand-outs from the government and/or the Diaspora. It is also no secret that Yerevan is growing fast and prospering. Most importantly, the Armenian Republic is politically and socially stable - unlike all the other nation within the region.

What Armenia has been able to accomplished today under such dire conditions, within such a bad region, is nothing short of a miracle. The reality is that Armenia today is better-off many most other former Soviet nations who don't even have a fraction of Armenia's problems. And as harsh as it sounds, the aforementioned 'general' perspective of our nation is what counts in the real world, not the opinions of the unemployed uneducated poor who constantly complain about the government not feeding them. Nations in transition will go through such growing pains, its natural. All nations have gone through such periods, including the finest nations in the West. Unfortunately, however, Armenia's destiny is not totally in her hands. Due to Armenia's geographic position, her prosperity, her future, is dependent upon the region's superpower politics.

What about Artsakhtsis in Armenia?

I hope none of you here are amongst the ignorant low-lives that bad mouth Artsakhtsis and their presence in Yerevan. The fact of the matter is, Artsakhtsis took control in Yerevan during the worst sociopolitical period in the Armenian Republic. No one gave them the power, they took it themselves because there was more-or-less a vacancy in the government. Had Armenians in Yerevan been a bit more ideologically driven and organized perhaps they would be in control today and not the Artsakhtsis. However, we saw what happened when Yerevantis were in control during the "Levon" years.

Now that we have had various high profile revolutions within the region, do we need a revolution in Armenia?

I always try to caution those who call for a revolution within Yerevan. Any change of the status-quo within Yerevan today can potentially be very detrimental for the wellbeing of the Armenian Republic. Let's all first realize that we have a real foreign threat in Yerevan today: US State Department financed NGOs and various American "news" organizations like "Armenianow" are working very hard to bring about a "pro-democracy" revolution in Armenia. Sadly, most Armenians are clueless about real world politics and, as a result, many fall victim to their manipulations. This is absolutely no time for a revolution in Armenia. Kocharyan's administration has many faults but it's the best we have under "our" unique circumstances. Having said that, I would also welcome Serge Sarkisian's presidency.

I'm satisfied with the fact that officials in Yerevan today have managed to foster close ties with Russia and Iran at the same time keeping good relations with EU and the United States. I'm also glad that official Yerevan is not kissing Turkish ass. Under the leadership of Kocharyan and Sarkisian, the borders of the Armenian Republic are secure, Armenian society is stable and the Armenian economy keeps growing from year to year. The aforementioned are the fundamental things that I expect a government to provide it people. As far as corruption is concerned, it won't disappear anytime soon because it is deeply embedded within our people's psychology and the socioeconomic conditions of the region also foster such behavior. We need at least a couple of generations to negate the corruption level in Armenia.

And I don't care if Serge Sarkisyan has castles built upon the Moon, or Mars for that matter as long as he is doing his job as Defense Minister/Foreign Minister or President. I suggest some of you here to look at how other politicians around the world live and stop acting like ignorant peasants. As bad as corruption may it is nothing new nor is it exclusive to former Soviet states. As a matter of fact, the word itself is being used as a propaganda tool by Western governments to poison the minds of the citizenry. We constantly get chastised over corruption by the US officials. However, when will we be hearing about the legendary corruption that is being performed by US officials worldwide?

Nonetheless, under Kocharyan/Sarkisian's rule the Armenian Republic has attained the following:

Armenia today is one of the safest countries in the world

Armenian society and politics are quite stable, unlike most others within the region in question

Armenia has secure borders due to its strong military infrastructure and its strategic political alliances

Armenian economy is growing fast and Yerevan is blossoming

More and more Diasporan Armenians are feeling welcome in Armenia today

Gradually, corruption in Armenia is decreasing


I would like to emphasize again that this is absolutely no time for any kind of "revolution" within the Armenian Republic. Revolution in Yerevan is what US State Department officials wants, that is what Ankara wants, that is what Baku wants and that is what Tblisi wants. In short, change of government in Armenia is what our enemies want. As a result, I will not shed a single tear if all the "revolution" seekers within the Armenian Republic get beaten to a bloody pulp in the streets. And to hell with "Democracy." There has never been true "Democracy" in the world, especially in the United States. Such philosophical rhetoric is relative to interpretation and implementation. Democracy today is used by globalists as a pretext to invade and exploit vulnerable nations.

Democracy today is what "Christianity" used to be in the West several hundred years ago - simply excuse to impose your rule over smaller nations and exploit their resources. The United States, as with all other so-called democratic nations on earth, is a democracy only in name. At best, certain aspects of democracy is upheld to a certain point/extent. Nevertheless, democracy per say is an intangible concept that is only spoken about in lofty terms but never truly seen or felt.

Politicians who preach democracy today are essentially representatives of corporate conglomerations/federations that serve the interests of the elite. When an individual/politician tires to cross some ideological/political/economic/social boundaries, when one deliberately steps on the foot of the elite, the facade of democracy will come crashing down upon his head. Democracy today in the Western world is what Christianity was in the west world for the past two thousand years - something to believe in, pay allegiance to, and when it suites the elite - to fight and die for.

Supreme God of the Western world today is the notion of - Democracy. And the Devil, the evil one, is anyone who for what ever reason opposes it.
Last edited by Armenian on Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:20 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Postby Armenian on Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:34 pm

Ararat wrote:Armenian, Well i will agree with you that Robert Kocharyan was successfull to manage holding this status-quo for almost 9 years and i am sure that he will not sign any treaty in the near future.


Well, I'm glad you use logic and balance in your assessment of the current administration. There are Armenian idiots who enjoy doing the work for ZOG and Turks by attacking and slandering Kocharyan and company. No one would be happier than Americans and Turks if Kocharyan/Sarkisian's group gets defeated during the next elections.

Also i agree that the todays Government is not willing in general to give to azeris the lands, but the today's government has entered himself in such a position were sooner or later he must find a solution.


Yes, there obviously has to be a solution eventually. However, that does not means that it's this administration's fault that there has to be a solution. When you have international bodies such as the UN, WTO, IMF, EU, America, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Israel, Georgia, etc, working against you - what can you do? What you can do is play the "game" and keep doing what you think is best for your long term strategic plans. That is what I see the current administration doing and I applaud them for it.

Step by step they are speaking about referendum, return of azeri deportes, peace and diplomatic relations with turks etc etc ... I understand that they are doing this for the International Community, but note also that it has very demoralising effects on the Armenian population in Armenia. People are really begining to believe that sooner or later we must give lands. The idea of giving lands become normal, a politically correct idea, and loosed his taboo character.


The "masses" (hasarakutyun@) will always be unsatisfied and ignorant regardless of their "good" intentions. As a result, politicians can't, and should never, listen to the public for serious political decisions - especially when dealing with emotional and irrational people like Armenians. For obvious reasons, the public is not seriously consulted by governments even in the so-called "Democratic" nations of the West. I think most Armenians today mean well but they are totally ignorant of political science.

The Military corpus is also desoriented when the Defense minister is speaking much about peace-talks and less about rebuilding the liberated teritories near Artsakh...


The "military corpus" must first get to know the world they live in before they began to dictate long-term state policy. The military corpus in a place like the Caucasus should not get involved in international diplomacy. The military corpus we have is made up of simple men who somehow ended up in the Artsakh conflict, and now are war veterans with ideas. We have very few individuals like Seyran Ohanian who I believe to be a real military officer. The rest of our powerful military men, like the late Vazgen Sarkisian, are simple village folk, with village mentalities. As such, Jirayr means well and I respect him, but he is not familiar with the delicate nuances of international diplomacy.

However, this dose not mean that we should all close our eyes and allow officials in Yerevan to do whatever they want. When we see obvious and blatant mistakes, or treason, like the ones we saw with Levon Ter Petrosian, than the military and the public can step in and made proper adjustments in government. Thus far, I do not see any geostrategic problems coming out of Yerevan. Kocharyan and company have stopped the "Paul Gobble" plan, the "TARC" movement, Levon's treason, American meddling in Armenian politics and many-many other things. I also believe that the current administration has done a masterful job in strengthening Russo-Armenian relation, Irano-Armenian relations, at the same time kept close and cordial relations with the EU and America.

Unfortunately, most Armenians today only think about today, not tomorrow. Most Armenians only think about their stomachs. I understand simple people can not see past their stomachs or their wallets. The aforementioned comes from a lack of education, lack or self-respect, lack of experience and a lack of international exposure.

All this negative effects are accumulating, and guys like Jirayr Sefilyan who give all their life to this fight are loosing patience and trust to the supreme commendement.


These are natural situations within a complex political environment like the Caucasus. Thus, it is prudent to keep a cold and logical perspective regarding such matters.

The best solution must be the change of Official line of Republic Armenia.
I mean we must have strong precondition official preconditions toward Azerbaijan and Turkey.
Just examples of some minimal preconditions that today are not used.
1. The Nakhichevan question.
2. Financial retribution of Sumgait & Baku pogroms and ethnic cleansing
3. Recognition of Genocide
4. Financial retribution of 15 year of economic blocus.
5. Complete stop of hate propaganda by turko-azeris medias.
6. The question of Armenian deportees
etc etc.


Due to international pressure there is only so much official Yerevan can do openly upon the international stage. Due to our landlocked tiny nation with no economic power, ther eis only so much you can do upon the international stage. What you just outlined above applies to powerful nations with strong international backing. Thus far, we are in no position to make such demands.

As a matter of fact, if we are not careful we could be branded an "extremist state" like Serbia, North Korea or Iran by the international community. Therefore, put what I just said in a clear perspective and realize that there are do's and dont's in international diplomacy and politics. The preconditions you referred to must be created and expressed by non-governmental organizations such as the ARF, the Armenian Aryan Union, the Armenian Church, social organizations, etc.

It's time we mature as a people, it's time we being looking at international politics with a balanced perspective.
Last edited by Armenian on Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Armenian on Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:36 pm

Regarding Jirayr Sefilyan and the ARF:

I come from a "Hnchakian" family but in my teens I was attracted to ARF ideology and history. I first joined the AYF (Yertasartac Dashnakcutyun) in the late 80s and was later accepted into the ARF. However, after several years in the organization I resigned, however, my resignation had nothing to do with the party's ideology. I still am an ARF supporter (Hamagir) and I still maintain ARF friends. I'm actually thinking about re-joining the party.

As far as I'm concerned, the arrest of Jirayr (a long standing ARF member) should not worry anyone too much. Even in the opinion of many ARF-ers that I have spoken to, Jirayr clearly overstepped his boundaries. Apparently, he and several others were organizing an armed group with the intention of assassinating any Armenian official that would attempt to give way Armenian lands in Artsakh.

On the face of it, what Jirayr and his comrades did was noble and even commendable. However, a viable nation, a strong government, a healthy society, can 'NOT' allow military men, or politicians for that matter, to simply assemble armed gangs for whatever reason just because they feel like it. The mere thought of it is absurd on many levels, it's simply third world. In the longterm, such a chaotic situation would be a serious danger to the internal health of our nation - after all, we are not Afghans nor are we Somalians. There needs to be a 'line' that military men, such as Jirayr, should not cross.

Having said that, I have to say that there is no chance in hell that the current ruling administration in Yerevan is willing to give up any of our lands in Artsakh. Such talk is absolute nonsense it only serves the interests of Washington DC and Ankara. As bad as Kochryan and Sarkissian are domestically, they have done an excellent job diplomatically and strategically, especially in establishing close ties with Russia and Iran. Nonetheless, if one day some politician in Yerevan decides to give away lands in Artsakh - rest assured, we won't need Jirayr, there will be a multitude of men that would rise up and put a stop to it. So, I would suggest you all not to worry too much about Artsakh - unless that is the next president somehow ends up being pro-West.

What's more, even if Armenians collectively decided to give Artsakh away to the Azeris - Russia and Iran would not allow it. So, let's grow up and not spread stupid rumors like - Kocharyan is willing to sell Artsakh back to the Azeri Turks for 9 billions dollars.

In the meanwhile, the ARF has convinced Yerevan to go easy on Jirayr. As a result, he will not be deported back to Lebanon. Eventually, Jirayr will be allowed to go back to Artsakh and re-assume his military command. But Jirayr needs to understand that mere individuals, regardless of good intentions, can not be allowed to the challenge the institutions of government in such manners.

Regarding the ARF

Image
ARF Founders left to right: Stepan Zorian, Christapor Mikaelian, Simon Zavarian

The ARF is a serious political party who's members portray serious party mentalities and ethics. In theory, an ARF member is expected to only serve the party, and the party in turn is expected to serve the Fatherland. Unfortunately, however, due to human nature, it does not work that way all the time. Nevertheless, the political ideology of the ARF, on paper, is perhaps the most ideal form of Armenian nationalism we have today. Most ARF members are true Armenian nationalists. And ARF's one hundred+ years experience is simply priceless.

The ARF, with its affiliates worldwide, is perhaps amongst the biggest organizations within the world. The ARF controls a vast network worldwide: It has a youth organizations (AYF), a spiritual branch (Cilician See), a political branch (Hai-Dat/ANC), a cultural branch (Hamazgayin), a sports branch (Homentmen), a charity branch (HOM), and a military branch (information not available). This unique nature of the ARF is the fundamental reason why the KGB and the CIA tried very hard to infiltrate it during the Cold War. As a result, at times, the ARF had agents within the organization that worked for either the KGB or the CIA.

Founded in 1890, the ARF fought the Ottoman Sultan within Anatolia, in the Caucasus and in the Balkans during in the late nineteenth century and the early twentieth century. The ARF fought the Young Turks during the Armenian Genocide (Note: previously the ARF had made a serious mistake when it made a deal with the Young Turks and disarmed in 1908 after the Young Turks overthrew the Sultan and promised reform). Miraculously, the ARF managed to create and defend a fledgling Armenian homeland, the First Armenian Republic in 1918. Not being able to hold on due to serve geopolitical and socioeconomic problems in 1921, the ARF handed over the Armenian Republic to the lesser of the two evils at the time, the Bolsheviks. Afterwards, the ARF moved its operations and resources into the Armenian Diaspora. Within the Diaspora, the ARF organized the Armenian community and continued to fight for Armenia's liberation from Turks and Bolsheviks.

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ARF Freedom Fighters Soon After Shushi's Liberation

When the KGB/NKVD penetrated the Armenian Church in Etchmiadzin, the ARF responded by essentially taking over the Cillician Church in Lebanon. During the Second World War, with hopes of liberating Armenia from Bolshevik rule, the ARF made a political alliance with the Nazis. During the Cold War, the ARF joined forces with the CIA. During Lebanon's civil war, the ARF was instrumental in protecting the Armenian community there and played a great "neutral" role within Lebanese politics. Also during the seventies, the ARF "Justice Commandos" began assassinating Turkish officials in the name of our "Hai Dat." Also during the same time, the ARF created the ANC, the finest political lobbying groups Armenians have in the West. During the eighties, ARF managed to establish ties with the Kurdish PKK and even managed to open lines of communications with the KGB. And in 1988, the ARF began sending armed agents into Artsakh.

In short, as a true political party, the ARF has attempted "everything" in its power to pursue its stated ideology: It attempted everything in its power to lead the Armenian Diaspora; it attempted everything in its power to resists turks; it attempted everything in its power to establish international ties, be it American, German, Socialist, Kurdish, Palestinian, Soviet, Iranian, etc. In essence, the ARF story is an epic in Armenian historiography. Looking at the ARF from afar, it looks very impressive, especially to none Armenians. I know first hand that the US State Department has taken notice of the unique nature of the ARF as well. I know that they consider the ARF to be one of the largest socio-political networks on earth and they openly call it an "untra-nationalist" organization. They also consider the ARF the only major entity within the Armenian nation today that gets in the way of Armenian-Turkish reconciliation. The aforementioned is the fundamental reason why the US State Department helped promote the creation of the "Armenian Assembly" in America. The AA was created in essence to compete with the political influence the ARF has had over the Diasporan (Note: TARC was presented to the Armenian community in America via the Armenian Assembly).

ImageImageImage
Famous ARF Armenian Freedom Fighters During the Ottoman Period. From Left to Right - Garegin Nzhteh, Arabo Arakel, Kévork Chavush.

The ARF party ideology is somewhat similar to the German NSDP - it is national socialist, although capitalists are found within the ARF ranks as well. The greatest ideological emphasis, however, is placed upon liberating Armenia's occupied western lands and preserving the liberation of Artsakh. And today, the ARF has began turning its attention towards the serious situation with Javakhq. The ARF began serving the Armenian nation in 1890 when its founding fathers decided to unite the various Armenian military and political groups in existence then, under one leadership and one flag. Hence their name - the Federation - Dashnakcutyun. And they have been at it ever since. During their one hundred and seventeen year existence they have had historic victories and historic defeats, monumental successes and tragic mistakes, great heroic men and corrupt betrayers. They, in essence, have reflected the very nature of Armenian society as a whole. Of the great men that have been ARF members: Drastamat Kanayan, perhaps one of the greatest modern day warrior we have had. And let's not forget Garegin Njhdeh, perhaps the greatest nationalist/philosopher/political activist the Armenian nation has known. In short: The ARF is an integral part of modern Armenian culture, the so-called ARF society is a "sub-culture" within the Armenian nation.


For better or for worst, the ARF has been the only Armenian political organization within the diaspora that has been on the very forefront of Armenian politics. Armenian political history for the last 100+ years have been for the most part written by the ARF. As a result, it is quite natural that they have had many mistakes - as well as having many successes. In the enormous complexities of the 20th century, it is quite natural that they have had many corrupt individuals within their ranks as well as having numerous historic figures. And there is a vast difference between 'collaborating' with certain entities with nationalistic intentions (whether it has been right or wrong, as in the case of their wrongful agreement in 1908 with the Young Turks, is another question) and 'begging' at the feet of superpowers.

Nonetheless, I ask again, who are you comparing them to in the diaspora? The non-existent Hnchaks? The AGBU? The Ramgavars? The Armenian Assembly? Who are you comparing them to?! Your less-than insightful comments about the ARF proves without a doubt that you know next to nothing about the organization in question. Nevertheless, I had simply made mild passing 'reference' to them in my comments about Russian-Armenians. This thread is about the Russian Federation and its relationship with Armenia. If you want to discuss the ARF I would like to ask you to start a thread elsewhere on this board and I'll meet you there.
Last edited by Armenian on Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:27 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby Armanen on Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:37 pm

Armenian, earlier you stated that you're planning on re-joining the ARF, will that be anytime soon?
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Postby Armenian on Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:40 pm

Armanen wrote:Armenian, earlier you stated that you're planning on re-joining the ARF, will that be anytime soon?


As soon as I move out of New York. In several years.
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Postby Armenian on Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:37 pm

Armenians today bitterly complain about "Dodi Gago's" wealth. We constantly hear - Dodi Gago is a criminal, he is a thug, he is a gangster, etc.

View satellite image of his hilltop palace: http://forum.armenianclub.com/attachmen ... 1152030373

In reality, this person known as "Dodi Gago" is quite typical of the "Nuevo Riche" men of this world. However, Dodi Gago is different somewhat in that he has never forgotten where he comes from. I have been told that he spends a lot of money on impoverished families from his old town, he financially supports families of those killed in the Artsakh war, and he employs hundreds of people across the nation. I have seen his palacial dwelling on the outskirts of Yerevan and have even used many of the gas stations he supposedly owns.

Is this Dodi Gago an intellectual? No!

Is he a refined person? No!

Is he a saint? No!

Nonetheless, regardless of whether or not Dodi Gago is a criminal, I'm glad these types of people are investing and building in their own country, and not abandoning Armenia for places like Switzerland, Russia, France or the United States.

And Armenians today bitterly complain about how the wealthy in Armenia build elaborate castles, such as the dazzling Greco-Roman complex in the picture below:

Image

The construction of the above "complex" was supposedly started by a "Maffia" type who made a ton of money in Russia after the Soviet collapse. While in Yerevan, I heard that the man in question was murdered in Moscow by rivals and, as a result, the construction of the complex had stopped. Nonetheless, who cares how the building was built or for whom? At the very least, it's being built in Armenia and not elsewhere

A question for does who complain:

When you look at the European castles, Russian palaces, American skyscrapers - do you think about how they were built, why they were built, or for whom they were built?

No, you don't. You just look at them with your mouth open.

For example, take a close look at the following magnificent castle:

Image

A typical Armenian, a typical human being, would admire the beautiful construction in question, and rightfully so. Well, the castle in question, like most European castles and palaces, was built by a mad lunatic who ruined the region's treasury and was responsible for the deaths of many of his countrymen.

However, God forbid if an Armenian today tries to construct an elaborate building.

Before we begin to slander our people, let's first look at the politicians and businessmen in places like Israel, America, Russia, France, Italy, etc. Compared to those people, the worst Armenian we have today would be considered a saint. A little reminder. Like many other major cities, the magnificent metropolis of New York was build upon the bodies of city's poor. During the course of its construction at the turn of the previous century, many thousands of New York's poor were uprooted and displaced. The mayor of New York was a well connected criminal. The rich in New York lived like kings and the poor lived like rats. And for many decades thereafter, New York City was one of the filthies and one of the most dangerous cities to live in the world. Yet, look at it now - what American today remembers the pain of yesterday.

So, next time you want to complain about the "unethical" construction operations going on in Yerevan today first put it in a proper context and perspective.

Growth requires pain, unfortunately. We don't live in a perfect world.

Workers of the world... grow up!
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Postby Armanen on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:16 pm

As soon as I move out of New York. In several years.


Am I correct in assuming that you will be moving to Armenia in a few years?


BTW: I agree with your assesment of many Armenians illogical thoughts on various issues, whether politically or socially. But it is the duty of all educated Armenians to bring light (knowledge) to the uneducated.
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Postby Armenian on Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:54 pm

Armanen wrote:Am I correct in assuming that you will be moving to Armenia in a few years?


Աստված ուզէ:

BTW: I agree with your assesment of many Armenians illogical thoughts on various issues, whether politically or socially. But it is the duty of all educated Armenians to bring light (knowledge) to the uneducated.


Մեր ազգի մեչ հավասարակշրութիւն կամ հեռանկարային քաղաքական մոտեցում չկա: Հետամնացութիւն և չտեսութիւն է տիրում այսոր:
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Postby artsakh on Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:06 am

Armenian, I have a picture in front of that palace. The guard standing in front of the gate did not inform me it belonged to gagik.

But in any manner, while most people i came across do acknowledge the fact that gago did some dirty work to get where he is today, most acknowledge that at least now that he's at where he is, he's atleast giving something back.

Just watch how much votes these guys get.
Last edited by artsakh on Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby artsakh on Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:11 am

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Last edited by artsakh on Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Armanen on Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:04 am

I hope you do end up in Armenia within the near future, enker.

Մեր ազգի մեչ հավասարակշրութիւն կամ հեռանկարային քաղաքական մոտեցում չկա: Հետամնացութիւն և չտեսութիւն է տիրում այսոր:


I agree, we as a people, need to realize that our strength and prosperity lies within our collective unity, therefore we need to strive for the best possible education, infused with nationalism, and cultural programs, to foster this growth. Yet, I understand that when a person doesn't always know when there next meal will be, that they don't have time to pursue a higher education. However, we need to work on the situation.
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Postby Armenian on Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:37 pm

An interesting article from the Russian press:

Fighting for Armenia

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In all civilized countries people see elections as an opportunity to improve their lives, to build a stronger state and improve security. Similar attitudes prevail in Armenia today because the outcome of the forthcoming parliamentary elections will largely determine changes in government and society, prospects for settling the Karabakh crisis, and success of the efforts to overcome the consequences of the Armenian genocide. These are major regional and international issues.

But ordinary Armenians have more faith in real power than promises. It is no accident that the public preferences are with the parties of power - the Republicans and the newly-established Prosperous Armenia Party (PAP). The opposition parties are obviously weak. The PAP was set up with the support of the current administration and is headed by local oligarch Gagik Tsarukian. In the forthcoming presidential elections, he is unlikely to put up a serious fight against the only favorite Serzh Sarkisian. Even the name of Prosperous Armenia sounds more like a declaration. In effect, its leader is a man whose business has prospered largely due to the benevolent attitude of the current authorities.

The Armenian Revolutionary Federation deserves special mention. This party has made a great contribution to the success of the Karabakh movement; it is widely respected by the numerous Armenians who live outside the CIS, and has been trying to restore its positions in Russia and other former Soviet republics. It looks like this party will receive about 10% of the votes and have a voice in parliament. It will probably support the Republican presidential nominee Serzh Sarkisian, and a Russia-oriented strategy.

The prospects of Russian-Armenian strategic partnership are rather bleak since the modern geopolitical alignment of forces in the Caucasus does not favor Armenia and Russia. The U.S., Europe and Turkey are confidently paving the way for NATO into Central Asia through Georgia and Azerbaijan. The West has been closely watching the Caspian oil-and-gas projects and construction of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan and Baku-Tbilisi-Erzurum pipelines, railways and highways bypassing Armenia, and may decide to stage a major geopolitical experiment in the region.

The United States and its allies want to stay in the region in the long term not only because the Caspian is rich in energy and Central Asia in strategic raw materials but also to gain control of the most important territories and communications, exert pressure on the oil-bearing Iran and eradicate Russia's traditional influence there. Regrettably, Orthodox Georgia is turning into a vehicle of implementing Western strategy and geopolitics in the Caucasus and Central Asia. Hence, fighting for Armenia will determine who controls the South Caucasus, and can exert certain influence on Asia Minor. For this reason, the West and Russia are equally interested in Robert Kocharian's successor.

For us the best choice will be Serzh Sarkisian, defense minister and secretary of the Armenian Security Council. As a government official, he has climbed the career ladder starting from the bottom, and held key positions in security-related bodies of Nagorny Karabakh and Armenia. He knows the domestic situation well and has built a good working relationship with his Russian colleagues. All these factors should contribute to the consolidation of strategic partnership. There is no united opposition in Armenia, which does not mean that the presidential elections will be uneventful. The Western favorite is Vardan Oskanian, who has been Armenia's foreign minister during all these years.

In order to promote their strategic partnership Russia and Armenia should look for new opportunities to expand trade and economic relations, and military-technical and cultural cooperation. Armenia requires additional security guarantees in the event of an armed provocation in the Karabakh conflict area. In turn, Armenia should have a clear-cut concept of national security. Russia, on the other hand, must clearly see the framework of a common security system in the region in general, and in Armenia, in particular. The inter-government commission on economic cooperation between Russia and Armenia should probably step up its activities. It could include reputable representatives of civil institutions from both sides.

Russian companies have bought Armenian energy facilities, and are not enthusiastic about investing in the local economy, especially in small and medium-sized businesses. By comparison, in the period between 1992 and 2001,Turkey set up 1,327 businesses of different status on the territory of its main South Caucasian partner, Azerbaijan. Armenian society is hoping that the visit of Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov will contribute to the promotion of bilateral ties. Yerevan understands that the present and future of Russian-Armenian relations largely determine political stability in the South Caucasus. Despite intensive activities of NATO and the European Union in the region, Armenia continues to be Russia's reliable partner. Yerevan is maintaining relations of trust with Russia when it comes to national security, and is trying to avoid problems that may require force majeure solutions. This is my view of Armenian foreign policy. Its positive development largely depends on Russia's position, and on its predictable and resolute action in the region.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070404/63081977.html

In related news:

Russia Signals Opposition To Regime Change In Armenia

Russia signaled on Tuesday its opposition to regime change in Yerevan, with Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov pointedly declining to deny speculation that Moscow supports Defense Minister Serzh Sarkisian’s apparent plans to become Armenia’s next president. Lavrov, in Yerevan on a two-day official visit, stressed the need for continuity in policies pursued by the current Armenian leadership. During a joint news conference with Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian he was asked to comment on growing assertions by Russian media and prominent analysts that the widely anticipated handover of power from President Robert Kocharian to Sarkisian suits the Kremlin.

“The official position of Russia coincides with the unofficial position of Russia,” Lavrov replied. “We are sincerely interested in seeing Armenia stable and prosperous and seeing it continue to move down the path of reforms. As far as we can see, the results [of those reforms] are already felt in the socioeconomic sphere.” “So we wish Armenia success in this endeavor,” he added. “We want the next phase of the constitutional process to lead to the creation of conditions for a continued movement in that direction.”

Kocharian is thought to have enjoyed Russian backing throughout his nearly decade-long presidency. Both he and Sarkisian stand for Armenia’s continued military alliance with Russia, while seeking closer security ties with the West. The Kocharian administration has also helped to significantly boosted Russia’s economic presence in the country in recent years. The Russian minister’s visit to Armenia was officially dedicated to the 15th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between the two former Soviet republics. The unresolved Nagorno-Karabakh conflict was high on the agenda of his talks with Oskanian. Russia co-heads the Minsk Group of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe together with the United States and France.

Oskanian told reporters that he and his Azerbaijani counterpart Elmar Mammadyarov will again later this month or early next in a fresh attempt to narrow the conflicting parties’ differences over the Minsk Group’s existing peace proposals. “The goal is to continue to work on the document and to prepare for the likely meeting of the presidents [of Armenia and Azerbaijan] in June,” he said. The international mediators hope that the Armenian-Azerbaijani summit will yield a breakthrough. Lavrov said that Karabakh peace is facilitated by what he described as the absence of any differences on the issue between the three mediating powers. “This is probably the only conflict where the interests of Russia, the United States, and the European Union absolutely do not contradict each other and the interests of the conflicting parties themselves,” he said.

Lavrov further assured journalists that his country is trying hard to ease Armenia’s geographic isolation which has been aggravated by the continuing Russian transport blockade of neighboring Georgia. He pointed to the upcoming launch of a rail ferry service between the Georgian Black Sea port of Poti and Russia’s Port-Kavkaz. The ferry link will be primarily used by Armenian exporters and importers.


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One of Russia’s priorities – relations with Armenia - Lavrov

YEREVAN, April 4 (Itar-Tass) - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday relations with Armenia is one of Russia’s priorities.

“We believe that stability in the Caucasus depends in many respects on Armenia’s situation,” he told a meeting with students and professors of the Yerevan State University. “It is possible to ensure such stability not by means of creating a certain bloc, but by means of joint efforts,” he said.

“Within the framework of the Collective Security Treaty Organization we do not try to fence off ourselves from others or work against anyone,” he said. The Collective Security Treaty Organization is “aimed at stability, counteraction to terrorism and drugs trafficking and open cooperation with the countries interested in resolving these tasks,” Lavrov said. He pointed out that Russia is interested in calm on its borders, stable development of neighbouring countries and “mutually advantageous and equal cooperation with them proceeding from the interests of our economies and our countries.”

News source: http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.htm ... &PageNum=0
Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

Գարեգին Նժդեհ
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Postby Armenian on Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:50 pm

Անցյալ օրվա դեպքը բաւական մտահոքիչ էր իմ համար: Մեկնաբանութիւններ կա՞ն: Ամերիկյան մամուլը ասում է որ Քաղաքապետը «Կօնտրովերսիալ» անձնավորութիւն մըն է: Այտ ին՞չ է նշանակում: Ոեւէ մեկը ասյտեղ կարո՞ղ է միքանի տեղեկութիւններ տալ նրա մասին կամ դեպքի մասին:

ՏԵՂԵԿՈՒԹՅՈՒՆՆԵՐ ԴԱՏԱԽԱԶՈՒԹՅՈՒՆԻՑ ՄԱՀԱՓՈՐՁԻ ՎԵՐԱԲԵՐՅԱԼ

Image

2007 թվականի ապրիլի 2-ին` ժամը 22:20-ի սահմաններում Աշտարակ-Գյումրի մայրուղու` Աշտարակ քաղաքին մոտակա հատվածում անհայտ պետհամարանիշի ավտոմեքենայից կրակոցներ են արձակվել Գյումրիի քաղաքապետ Վարդան Ղուկասյանի ծառայողական` "Մերսեդես-600'մակնիշի 051 ԼԼ 50 պետհամարանիշի եւ նրան ուղեկցող "Գազ-3110" մակնիշի 770 ԼԼ 10 պետհամարանիշի ավտոմեքենաների ուղղությամբ:

Կրակահերթի հետեւանքով ստացած հրազենային վնասվածքներից "Գազ-3110" մակնիշի 770ԼԼ10 պետհամարանիշի ավտոմեքենայի հինգ ուղեւորներից երեքը` Արտյոմ Սամվելի Ադամյանը (ծնված` 1985թ.), Սիսակ Արամի Վարդանյանը (ծնված 1981թ.) եւ Հովհաննես Լեւոնի Միրզաբեկյանյանը (ծնված` 1970թ.) տեղում մահացել են: "Մերսեդես" մակնիշի 051ԼԼ50 պետհամարանիշի ավտոմեքենայում գտնվող Գյումրիի քաղաքապետ Վարդան Ղուկասյանը եւ քաղաքապետի տեղակալ Գագիկ Մանուկյանը ստացած հրազենային վնասվածքներով տեղափոխվել են "Սուրբ Գրիգոր Լուսավորիչ" բժշկական կենտրոն, իսկ վարորդ Վարազդատ Ղուկասյանը` "Արմենիա" բժշկական կենտրոն եւ ենթարկվել վիրահատության:

"Մերսեդես" մակնիշի 051ԼԼ50 պետհամարանիշի ավտոմեքենայի ուղեւոր Գյումրիի քաղաքապետարանի քաղաքաշինության վարչության պետ Հովհաննես Գրքիկյանը եւ "Գազ-3110"մակնիշի 770ԼԼ10 պետհամարանիշի ավտոմեքենայի վարորդ Վաչիկ Գյուղջօղլյանը, ուղեւոր Տիգրան Սիմոնյանը հրազենային վնասվածքներ չեն ստացել եւ բժշկական միջամտության անհրաժեշտություն չի եղել: Դեպքի առթիվ ՀՀ գլխավոր դատախազության քննչական վարչությունում հարուցվել է քրեական գործ ՀՀ քրեական օրենսգրքի 104-րդ հոդվածի 2-րդ մասի 1-ին եւ 6-րդ կետով, 34-104-րդ հոդվածի 2-րդ մասի 1-ին եւ 6-րդ կետով, 235-րդ հոդվածի 1-ին մասի հատկանիշներով:

Կազմվել է քննչական-օպերատիվ խումբ, որի կազմում ընդգրկվել են ՀՀ դատախազության, ՀՀ ազգային անվտանգության ծառայության եւ ՀՀ ոստիկանության փորձառու աշխատակիցները, կատարվում է նախաքննություն: Դեպքի վայրի զննությամբ հայտնաբերվել է ինքնաձիգի թվով 77 պարկուճ, որից 52-ը` ԱԿՄ տեսակի ինքնաձիգի 7.62 մմ տրամաչափի, իսկ 25-ը` ԱԿՍ տեսակի ինքնաձիգի 5.45 տրամաչափի պարկուճներ: Դիակների հերձման ընթացքում հայտնաբերվել է 14 գնդակ:

Հայտնաբերված պարկուճների եւ գնդակների ուսումնասիրման արդյունքում պարզվել է, որ դեպքի վայրում աշխատել է 2 ինքնաձիգ: Նշանակվել են փորձաքննություններ, ձեռնարկվում են բոլոր անհրաժեշտ միջոցառումները դեպքի հանգամանքները եւ հանցագործությունը կատարած անձանց ինքնությունը պարզելու եւ նրանց հայտնաբերելու ուղղությամբ: Նախաքննության արդյունքների մասին կհայտնվի լրացուցիչ:

Կայք: http://www.a1plus.am/amu/?page=issue&iid=47368
Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

Գարեգին Նժդեհ
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Postby Ararat on Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:45 pm

Armenian wrote:Անցյալ օրվա դեպքը բաւական մտահոքիչ էր իմ համար: Մեկնաբանութիւններ կա՞ն: Ամերիկյան մամուլը ասում է որ Քաղաքապետը «Կօնտրովերսիալ» անձնավորութիւն մըն է: Այտ ին՞չ է նշանակում: Ոեւէ մեկը ասյտեղ կարո՞ղ է միքանի տեղեկութիւններ տալ նրա մասին կամ դեպքի մասին:


Ինքը մի քիչ տարօրինակ էր այն առումով որ սովորական քաղաքական կերպար չի: Շատ յուրահատուկ խոսալոճ ունի: Հետո ինքը թունդ կարելի է ասել ֆանատիկ քրիստոնեա է: Ինքը մեծ ուժեղ կլան ունի որի շնորհիվ ունի բացարձակ իշխանություն Գյումրիում:
Նրա ատում էն այսպես կոչված լիբերալ շրջանակները որովհետև ինքը միշտ Քոչարյանին է սատարել ու չի թողել ընդդիմության ուժեղացում Գյոմրիում: Ընդանրապես Գյումրիում Քոչարյանը միշտ էլ շատ ձայն է ունեցել:
Ինքը նաև բավականին հարուստ մարդ է ու վերահսկոում շատ ոորտներ Գյումրիում:
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Postby leo_matousian on Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:12 pm

i heard that kocharian's wife might be jew.

is it possible ?
"We must secure the existence of our nation,
and future for white armenian children"

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